tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4956057989227103850.post4580394495629521844..comments2023-10-19T09:36:41.506-05:00Comments on A Mormon Enigma: Option 3 - pursuing a gay relationshipAbelard Enigmahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13166049686152203530noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4956057989227103850.post-79652016323821304072007-12-07T11:23:00.000-06:002007-12-07T11:23:00.000-06:00My goodness!! I've never been called malevolent!Re...My goodness!! I've never been called malevolent!<BR/><BR/>Regardless of personal paradigms, I would have been excommunicated if I had gone down that road. If you would like to read the reason for my 180, read Dallin Oaks' talk in the May 2005 Ensign.<BR/><BR/>Regards,<BR/><BR/>NealNealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03943975175380497835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4956057989227103850.post-74011281450129189502007-12-06T18:55:00.000-06:002007-12-06T18:55:00.000-06:00RealNeal's brush with evil at the mall, Cher Horow...RealNeal's brush with evil at the mall, Cher Horowitz. That's wuzza.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4956057989227103850.post-74907065871260537232007-12-06T18:48:00.000-06:002007-12-06T18:48:00.000-06:00Wuzza?Wuzza?playasinmarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05998841658611428960noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4956057989227103850.post-13446032443280366062007-12-06T18:04:00.000-06:002007-12-06T18:04:00.000-06:00I was rebuked at a particularly low point in my li...<I>I was rebuked at a particularly low point in my life, when I was ready to throw in the towel and do some pretty evil things, and it made me do a 180. I guess I needed a kick in the head.</I><BR/><BR/>Were you going to murder someone or steal an old lady's purse? What stopped you?<BR/><BR/>Or were they just evil to you in your paradigm? To me, cheesecake and TV are evil. You malevolent little Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4956057989227103850.post-46132975914804925172007-12-06T07:39:00.000-06:002007-12-06T07:39:00.000-06:00Neal -- Those are kind words... I've messed up pl...Neal -- Those are kind words... I've <A HREF="http://youngstranger.blogspot.com/2007/11/promiscuity.html" REL="nofollow">messed up plenty, too</A>.<BR/><BR/>We all learn in our own way.John Gustav-Wrathallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03557940681381951271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4956057989227103850.post-59450426621761945662007-12-05T11:01:00.000-06:002007-12-05T11:01:00.000-06:00If the situation you were describing was a persona...<I>If the situation you were describing was a personal one, I'm sorry you felt pressured or uncomfortable in the Temple.</I><BR/><BR/>I don't think I'm alone in feeling that way -- at least not according to the anecdotal evidence with which I am familiar.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05940646193920094814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4956057989227103850.post-68428812323638257962007-12-05T10:51:00.000-06:002007-12-05T10:51:00.000-06:00JGW,I appreciate and admire your integrity. I live...JGW,<BR/><BR/>I appreciate and admire your integrity. I lived in hypocrisy for many years, so you are a better man than I...<BR/><BR/><BR/>Regards,<BR/><BR/>NealNealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03943975175380497835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4956057989227103850.post-23588564686912687112007-12-05T07:42:00.000-06:002007-12-05T07:42:00.000-06:00I take temple covenants seriously.I know this is n...I take temple covenants seriously.<BR/><BR/>I know this is not a conventional approach, but before I ever even considered a same-sex relationship I resigned from Church membership. I actually felt guided by the Spirit to do this. I did not do anything I felt at the time would have violated temple covenants, until after I had asked to be released and had been released from them. Even after John Gustav-Wrathallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03557940681381951271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4956057989227103850.post-60684229558290174572007-12-05T02:23:00.000-06:002007-12-05T02:23:00.000-06:00Playa has a point- there was another suicide last ...Playa has a point- there was another suicide last week here at BYU. It's sad that we have to say "another." Romulus mentions this in his latest post...<BR/><BR/>Perhaps you could consider writing a "Please don't choose option 4" post, Abelard- especially since so many mohos really do consider suicide at some point- I certainly did. <BR/><BR/>On a lighter note, I loved these posts!! I give back dracohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11984716489966065319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4956057989227103850.post-41219599030921779802007-12-05T02:10:00.000-06:002007-12-05T02:10:00.000-06:00Pretending Option 4 doesn't exist is like pretendi...Pretending Option 4 doesn't exist is like pretending the I-15 doesn't have an off ramp in Spanish Fork.<BR/><BR/>It isn't something we like to acknowledge but with so many people taking that exit it<I> cannot be ignored.</I>playasinmarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05998841658611428960noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4956057989227103850.post-85054586639529834292007-12-05T01:26:00.000-06:002007-12-05T01:26:00.000-06:00I took option 3. The years of misery, loneliness a...I took option 3. The years of misery, loneliness and loss of the Spirit predicted by some of the more mean-spirited members of my former ward and a few distant relations did not happen. In fact, the opposite did: I blossomed.<BR/><BR/>Yes, there are consequences of taking Option 3. These consequences can include sanity, emotional wholeness, personal growth and increased closeness in friendships MoHoHawaiihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15086670779804942122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4956057989227103850.post-39881092286468907622007-12-05T01:07:00.000-06:002007-12-05T01:07:00.000-06:00Option 5 - get a loving same-sex partner, stay fai...Option 5 - get a loving same-sex partner, stay faithful to that person for years and years but keep coming to church and following its teachings to the extent you can, even after they excommunicate you.<BR/><BR/>Those who follow this path (you know who you are) truly inspire me. It's not a road many are strong enough to take, but there's something amazingly Christ-like about it.MoHoHawaiihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15086670779804942122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4956057989227103850.post-82092520402332194902007-12-04T20:49:00.000-06:002007-12-04T20:49:00.000-06:00Chris:Different perspectives are fine. If the situ...Chris:<BR/><BR/>Different perspectives are fine. If the situation you were describing was a personal one, I'm sorry you felt pressured or uncomfortable in the Temple. It does seem a little "foreign" going through for the first time. <BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Abelard:<BR/><BR/>Thanks for saying that. Suicide removes all options, therefore it is NOT an option!!<BR/><BR/>NealNealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03943975175380497835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4956057989227103850.post-36864733364046154412007-12-04T18:02:00.000-06:002007-12-04T18:02:00.000-06:00Option 4 - SuicideCan we all agree that suicide is...<I>Option 4 - Suicide</I><BR/><BR/>Can we all agree that suicide is <B>NOT</B> an option - and that anyone who tries to say otherwise is a poophead who has demonstrated that their opinions are worth less than dog excrement?<BR/><BR/>As far as I am concerned, a young man becoming a go-go boy at the local gay bar is infinitely preferable to him contemplating suicide!<BR/><BR/>I think I feel anotherAbelard Enigmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13166049686152203530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4956057989227103850.post-69115482971470477792007-12-04T17:41:00.000-06:002007-12-04T17:41:00.000-06:00Abelard, you are totally right on with the confirm...Abelard, you are totally right on with the confirmation that we LOVE each other no matter what. I am not going to judge anyone their choices they make. I do NOT know what is going on inside them just as no one knows what goes on inside me! <BR/><BR/>Scot, Chris, JGW, Elbow among others are men that I have come to LOVE and will not judge them for their choices. I respect, revere and honor themBeckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06159223254071653666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4956057989227103850.post-64433605489691595582007-12-04T16:49:00.000-06:002007-12-04T16:49:00.000-06:00Option 4 - SuicideOption 4 - Suicideplayasinmarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05998841658611428960noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4956057989227103850.post-63247320552657201582007-12-04T16:44:00.000-06:002007-12-04T16:44:00.000-06:00Neal,Our perspectives here clearly differ.Neal,<BR/><BR/>Our perspectives here clearly differ.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05940646193920094814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4956057989227103850.post-51381810426231181092007-12-04T16:35:00.000-06:002007-12-04T16:35:00.000-06:00Chris:We're taught from primary up the things we m...Chris:<BR/><BR/>We're taught from primary up the things we make covenants about in the Temple. We're held accountable for our choices beginning at 8 years old. We attend years of Sunday School, Seminary, Priesthood class, etc. learning about these things. I guess what I'm saying is I don't think we're asked to commit to anything in the Temple we haven't previously learned or made covenants to do.Nealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03943975175380497835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4956057989227103850.post-13883412495253889792007-12-04T16:28:00.000-06:002007-12-04T16:28:00.000-06:00Forester:Good thoughts. Thanks.Abelard:I didn't th...Forester:<BR/><BR/>Good thoughts. Thanks.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Abelard:<BR/><BR/>I didn't think that at all, but thanks for the clarification. We do indeed need to love all our brothers and sisters no matter what their circumstances or choices may be. We "all have sinned, and come short of the Glory of God"<BR/><BR/>"What bothers me is when I see people who feel this need to bear their testimony to Nealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03943975175380497835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4956057989227103850.post-1186327162356570462007-12-04T15:51:00.000-06:002007-12-04T15:51:00.000-06:00If we really do have a testimony and have made cov...<I>If we really do have a testimony and have made covenants with God through baptism, ordination to the Priesthood, and Temple ceremonies; then we agreed - actually promised - to follow him (and his Prophets), to give all of our time and talents to him and to his Church, and live ALL of his commandments. So I think we are indeed turning our back on God and those covenants when we willfully leave Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05940646193920094814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4956057989227103850.post-75189937936889437402007-12-04T15:49:00.000-06:002007-12-04T15:49:00.000-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05940646193920094814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4956057989227103850.post-91690457104063814832007-12-04T15:44:00.000-06:002007-12-04T15:44:00.000-06:00Again, thank you.I do believe that the Church make...Again, thank you.<BR/><BR/>I do believe that the Church makes gay Latter-day Saints jump through too many hoops. This is why we loose so many of them.<BR/><BR/>I don't believe that a gay relationship is incompatible with the Church. If any church has the tools to make gay relationships work in a religious environment, it is this Church. Here's why:<BR/><BR/>1. Revelation. We claim the divine Daniel (Old Account)https://www.blogger.com/profile/09853938564287982268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4956057989227103850.post-37633287341153033122007-12-04T15:39:00.000-06:002007-12-04T15:39:00.000-06:00Your thoughts are respectfully received.This is ex...Your thoughts are respectfully received.<BR/><BR/>This is exactly the kind of civil disagreement we need to have more of in the queerosphere.<BR/><BR/>I hope you don't take my words as "encouraging others to break their covenants or leave the Church." My whole point is that this is the path that many will ultimately choose - and we need to respect their decision. They are still our brothers andAbelard Enigmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13166049686152203530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4956057989227103850.post-62579375926006910882007-12-04T14:57:00.000-06:002007-12-04T14:57:00.000-06:00I definitely wouldn't want to encourage anyone to ...I definitely wouldn't want to encourage anyone to leave the church, but I also wouldn't want to encourage anyone to stay in the church if they are going to be resentful of that choice. People should be members of the church if they want to follow its teachings and they know it is the right thing to do. I know the church is true and I live by its principles because I want to and have chosen to Foresterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13252666368088857269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4956057989227103850.post-66250722335841091042007-12-04T14:35:00.000-06:002007-12-04T14:35:00.000-06:00Abelard,Thanks for this series of posts. My though...Abelard,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for this series of posts. My thoughts on this particular subject:<BR/><BR/>1.) I think the Church is trying to "set a place at the table" for us as evidenced by recent talks, pamphlets, etc from the Brethren. It won't happen over night, but I think things are in motion, and I think we need to be patient. Homophobia is not a Church phenomenon, its a global one.<BR/><BR/>2.Nealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03943975175380497835noreply@blogger.com